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April 14, 2024

Shelby County – ISP Recorded Interview Of Former Under Sheriff Rob McCall –

By Kirk Allen & John Kraft

On January 4, 2024

Shelby Co., Ill. (ECWd) –

As covered in the first article on the recently court-ordered release of audio interviews in this article, the Illinois State Police interviewed four people in relation to the payroll malfeasance that was taking place in the Shelby County Sheriff’s office several years ago.  While we were able to obtain the written reports of those interviews, the ISP fought us in court for years in their attempt to not turn over the recorded interviews.  This was surprising since the ISP has turned over such recordings in numerous other requests we had made in other investigations.

As expected, the statements made and the failure to follow up and validate certain things are troubling. All that aside, we now understand why the AG chose to do nothing in this case as the investigation lacked any real diligence to get the truth of the matter. It is clear, they took what was told to them as true and simply reported what was said rather than verify those claims. Had they tried to verify many of the claims they would have discovered what they were told was not accurate and in some cases simply not true.

We provided an initial article on McCall’s interview based on the written report in this article.

McCall claims the payroll system has been the same from his first day 28 years ago.  That creates a conflict with Vonderheide’s testimony that claimed the payroll system has changed 3-4 times. There was no follow-up by ISP to get an explanation on this conflict.

From the written report: “McCall advised when SCSO employees go 10-41 (on duty) or 10-42 (off duty) the time in which they do so does not impact how the employees are paid. SCSO are salaried employees and the 41/42 time does not impact how they’re paid. Employees go “SCSO are salaried employees and the 41/42 time does not impact how they’re paid.”

The audio version is not consistent with the written report and conflicts with the FOIA response Sheriff Koonce provided several years ago. We have found zero effort by ISP to rectify these conflicts.

According to the FOIA response we received, the on-duty – off-duty report (log-in / log-out file), is what was used for timekeeping for payroll, which indicates either we were lied to, or the ISP was lied to. The ISP bought off on McCall’s claim because they later made a note in the record that the CAD record is not used for timekeeping. The ISP failed to follow up with the Treasurer on this matter and if they had they would have known the Sheriff’s office claimed it “was” used for payroll purposes.

McCall also indicates the deputies were salaried employees, not hourly.  We know that is not true, yet the ISP did nothing to address that matter.

With a claim to the ISP that the CAD system is not used for timekeeping why does McCall point to a possible error in that system as the cause for overpayments?  The ISP missed that point.

McCall points to a mistake in the CAD system during the discussion and even the ISP indicates they are using the CAD system for payroll, which is directly in conflict with his prior statement that the CAD system is not used for timekeeping. The conflicts in the testimony are troubling and ignored by the ISP.

Log in log-out reports are being cross-checked with 10-41/10-42 times which again, makes no sense if they are salaried employees.

McCall agrees the 10-41 / 10-42 logs could be used to verify the time worked when asked by the ISP.  If that is the case, why was that log never provided to the Forensic Auditor?

McCall indicates the guns were forfeited when in reality, the guns were seized when they arrested the person in question. It was not until much later the guns were forfeited as part of a court action. McCall claims he spoke with Vonderheide and alleges he was told they could do pretty much whatever they wanted to do with the guns.  Vonderheide had no recollection of that discussion.

McCall alleges the realization that selling them was not legal was because the Sheriff’s seeing on only reflected one gun, not multiple guns.  The truth of the matter, never checked by the ISP, is that we were lied to in our May 2018 FOIA when we were told no seized weapons were sold.  That was a lie because the guns were sold in February of 2018.  It was after that FOIA the scramble began and guns began being returned, which is confirmed by the dates on the deposits for the refunds.

During the interview, the ISP reads from a FOIA response that they do not use timecards.  So, if they do not use timecards, nor the 10-41/10-42 log, how on earth are they keeping track of time for employees?

McCall confirms deputies were getting overpaid during the discussion and then the ISP points to them being salaried and McCall doubles down on that point.  That begs the question, how do salaried employees get overtime?

The claim the county board was comfortable with the deputies being salaried according to the contract is an interesting position to take since that subject was never discussed during county board meetings. How would he know the county board was comfortable with this?  Considering the county board ordered a forensic audit, it appears they were not comfortable with what was going on those we talked to at the time knew the deputies were not salaried employees but rather hourly. We find no record from the ISP reflecting they spoke with a single county board member.

Knowing what the actual records say, the actions taken, and the failures to validate so many statements should trouble everyone.  The reference that they, the ISP, are going to get more records to resolve does not appear to have ever happened.  That opinion is based on the fact the ISP has not provided any further records beyond the initial interviews.

The next coverage of the ISP-recorded interviews will be that of former Sheriff Don Koonce.


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